tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post3967540041985155527..comments2024-03-19T09:45:21.051+00:00Comments on Eat Noodles Love Noodles: The Debate: Why Does Japanese Food Cost More Than Chinese in London?Mr Noodleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-18896027002097340772012-04-23T08:39:34.188+01:002012-04-23T08:39:34.188+01:00I'm a little late to the party here, but I wou...I'm a little late to the party here, but I would just like to add, this is not a London/England phenomenon. It happens all over the world, in both Western and Eastern countries, in my experience.<br /><br />I'm a fan of both cuisines.Natehttp://www.yomadic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-88145131199425756552012-01-18T08:04:11.553+00:002012-01-18T08:04:11.553+00:00My family own a chinese restaurant and they always...My family own a chinese restaurant and they always tell me how cheap it is to buy chinese ingredients from the local chinese supermarkets, and you can them in huge bulks too, so you will notice that portions in chinese restaurants are always big. The ingredients for Japanese food is more expensive in England as the Japanese population is much smaller that their chinese counterparts. Also Japanese portion sizes tend to be traditionally small, just like in Japan. That's why they are so thin!benhttp://www.best-of-sapporo-japan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-11286714116353019852011-11-18T00:15:55.573+00:002011-11-18T00:15:55.573+00:00Anon - to be honest, when it comes to East Asian f...Anon - to be honest, when it comes to East Asian food, I think Thai, Chinese, and for that matter, Vietnamese are all at a similar price point. Korean is a tad pricier, with Japanese being the most expensive.Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-69678075310678680532011-11-17T13:03:43.644+00:002011-11-17T13:03:43.644+00:00A related thought - have you also noticed that Tha...A related thought - have you also noticed that Thai food costs more than the equivalent or very similar Chinese food? Or if the price of the dish is the same, the serving is always smaller.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-82107856918228844282011-11-17T07:32:29.674+00:002011-11-17T07:32:29.674+00:00Anon - thank you for your insights. Many 'Japa...Anon - thank you for your insights. Many 'Japanese' places are indeed run and managed by ethnic Chinese. Many of these, as you point out, are cheaper, but imho Chinese joints still tend to be better value. Good tip on using Korean sourced ingredients, too.Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-7804694820913117782011-11-17T01:26:39.295+00:002011-11-17T01:26:39.295+00:00I don't have an answer for why Japanese food c...I don't have an answer for why Japanese food costs more but I have found from personal experience that there are cheap and cheerful places selling Japanese food, and what they all have in common is that they are all run by non-Japanese. Many continental European cities now have all-you-can-eat conveyor belt sushi joints where free flow of sushi + hot food can be had for under 10 euros at lunchtime. I have tried a few in various cities and without exception, all are run by PRCs. It isn't the best sushi in the world but it is eminently edible and you can't really ask for more at that price. And you would never leave the place hungry. <br /><br />On a separate but related note, if I am making a Japanese dish at home, I almost always use the Korean equivalents because they are always cheaper and are virtually the same thing. I buy the Korean equivalents of panko, miso paste, gyoza wrappers, nori, wasabi, sushi rice etc. Always cheaper than the Japanese product and the taste is the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-44380147305410366772011-10-17T20:04:08.887+01:002011-10-17T20:04:08.887+01:00Mama Lan - not withstanding the price of fish, it&...Mama Lan - not withstanding the price of fish, it's the price of the everyday wasabi, miso, etc that lifts the cost of Japanese food up. Perception also plays a large part. <br /><br />But at the end of the day, the Chinese win anyway. The Great British public is largely ignorant of the fact that many Japanese eateries are in fact owned and managed by the Chinese!Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-67792669938971751862011-10-17T17:14:59.218+01:002011-10-17T17:14:59.218+01:00what an interesting discussion Mr Noodle! I've...what an interesting discussion Mr Noodle! I've always wondered the same thing. I do find Japanese food more expensive in London with one exception Misato http://www.london-eating.co.uk/1942.htm. I think there're two things<br /><br />1. Ingredients. No doubt that many Japanese restaurants use fresh, good quality seafood and many of them use ingredients from Japan and I guess they have to budget in wastage especially for the fresh seafood. <br /><br />Also the supply of Japanese ingredients is less than Chinese in the UK, so there's less competition hence the price would be higher. <br /><br />2. Perception. Japanese food is seen as healthier and more trendy than Chinese so a premium can be charged. This is largely influenced by celebrities who don't eat anything apart from fish and veg :). Having said that many Chinese restaurants aren't helping the situation by getting the cheapest supply they can find... and to make up the lack of flavour, salt, sugar, oil and msg are largely used in every single dish, hence less healthy.<br /><br />Anyway my point is that I agree with you that Japanese are more expensive than Chinese. Part of the reason is due to the ingredients used and part is due to the premium added to Japanese food. I can give a good example to the second point Nobu vs Hakkasan. Both are considered to be top restaurant in their own cuisine and both are trendy and well covered in the media and using the top ingredients. However, a meal in Nobu costs considerably more than Hakkasan and I'm not even talking about the most expensive dishes!Mama Lanhttp://www.mamalan.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-31696903598257426782011-10-14T00:14:14.032+01:002011-10-14T00:14:14.032+01:00monchiichi - your theory explains why Chinese is c...monchiichi - your theory explains why Chinese is cheap, but not why Japanese is expensive. Take, for example, Malaysian restos - there are very few but they tend to be cheap. Try to explain this using your supply-side theory?<br /><br />C&T - I disagree to an extent, in that classic Chinese is as simple as Japanese. And I don't think the ingredients are necessarily better, rarer maybe, but not better.Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-5178760313650669192011-10-13T16:28:48.991+01:002011-10-13T16:28:48.991+01:00Hi Mr Noodles. For what it's worth, my two cen...Hi Mr Noodles. For what it's worth, my two cents. <br /><br />My feeling is that, because Japanese cooking is a bit more pared down than Chinese (and some other, e.g., Indian) cuisine, it's more important for the ingredients to be of high quality. The majority of Chinese and Indian restaurants (excluding the v high-end ones), because they use so much seasoning and spice, can get away with using meat and veg that isn't necessarily the best out there. <br /><br />But Japanese cuisine is more like Italian - where the star of the show is the cut of pork or beef, or the spinach, tofu or aubergine, and comparatively little else is added to it to create the final dish. So the restaurants source better (and more expensive) ingredients, which makes the final bill more expensive.<br /><br />TruffleCinnamon and Trufflehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10077749642622021125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-41925346797601489242011-10-13T10:53:19.133+01:002011-10-13T10:53:19.133+01:00I reckon it's to do with supply and demand. On...I reckon it's to do with supply and demand. One of the things I've always wondered about is the fact that there are so few good Japanese restaurants in London. If you compare it to Chinese restaurants (where there's possible one every other 100m, regardless the quality, of course) I struggle to name the Japanese restaurants I like. There is one good one near me, but again, it's not a place I could go to frequently for a quick meal because it's just that little bit too pricey. Anyhow, because there are fewer Japanese restaurants, they get to charge higher prices, I reckon.monchichihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02417576256438593820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-33520416129945830542011-10-11T23:00:18.489+01:002011-10-11T23:00:18.489+01:00CCE - having mulled over the many comments, includ...CCE - having mulled over the many comments, including yours, I'm thinking about cause and effect. Does high customer turnover result in lower prices, or do lower prices result in more table turning? I'm thinking if Japanese was more expensive in the first instance for the reasons I cited in my post then they can afford not to have to turn tables so quickly. <br /><br />Thebao - no worries. I always welcome comments, but in this case, I just felt frustrated that points already covered in the original post were being cited as a factor. You're not the only one but your comment was one that tipped me over the edge. And you should know by now, food bloggers can be a temperamental bunch...Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-62653682640753316282011-10-11T11:23:16.133+01:002011-10-11T11:23:16.133+01:00Mr Noodles: Feel free to comment. I'm finding ...Mr Noodles: Feel free to comment. I'm finding it hard to write down what I am thinking actually! Wasn't really using your examples but just talking about general experiences and why Japanese cuisine comes at a higher price in general. Probably just a sweeping statement!! <br /><br />Sorry Sir Noodles! I'll go sit in the naughty corner.Thebaonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-31357957076980314682011-10-11T11:07:35.487+01:002011-10-11T11:07:35.487+01:00I have always wondered about this so it is good to...I have always wondered about this so it is good to have this debate here. I do agree that that there is a general view that Japanese food is more expensive but for me that rule only applies to sushi/sashimi. As much as I love Koya I find myself hard pressed to pay that much especially since the servings are not as generous. I can think if pho that is cheaper and just as complex to make that costs less. I also find that argument unsustainable because good dim sum is an art. Food is becoming more expensive generally and I feel that perhaps Chinese establishments have a greater number of clientele and turnover than Japanese ones and therefore can keep costs down by spreading them over a larger number of persons...Mehrunnisa Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16999746775608407822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-72801621791196711482011-10-11T10:30:04.600+01:002011-10-11T10:30:04.600+01:00Thebao - I don't want to sound like a schoolte...Thebao - I don't want to sound like a schoolteacher again, but did you actually read the example set out in the post? <br /><br />Here we have a casual Japanese caff, albeit a damn good one, in the form of Koya where the meal cost £21 for a quick in and out lunch.<br /><br />On the other hand, we have a posh-ish Mayfair full service Chinese restaurant, Princess Garden, where I had a leisurely two hour dim sum lunch for £20. <br /><br />In short, better service, better experience, fuller stomach and cheaper bill at posh Chinese resto compared to casual Japanese caff.Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-63174350808792167162011-10-11T10:15:56.717+01:002011-10-11T10:15:56.717+01:00Mari - welcome! Good point on manpower cost, altho...Mari - welcome! Good point on manpower cost, although I would like to point out there's a minimum wage in the UK. That said, I take your point that Japanese staff might not want to work for the wages that the Chinese would. Then again, there is a 'chicken or egg' question - what came first? Expensive staff or expensive restaurant? <br /><br />BTW - although set up by a British Chinese businessman, Alan Yau, from my perspective, Wagamama isn't a Chinese restaurant. Granted, it's not exactly Japanese - I would say it's more pan-Asian given some of the creeping SE Asian influences on the menu. <br /><br />Frank - thanks for the tipMr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-68375015370949576822011-10-11T10:15:22.720+01:002011-10-11T10:15:22.720+01:00I can't remember if I mentioned it in Twitter ...I can't remember if I mentioned it in Twitter but I think in some cases, you are paying for the experience and the level of service you are receiving.<br /><br />Service by the Chinese is normally quite brash unless I am going to a 'posher' (for the lack of a better word) place whilst Japanese are always quite attentive and ... polite?<br /><br />Typically, in a Chinese restaurant, it's bums on seats, order and bring dishes out when it's done. Expect people to start eating and when they have finished, to leave. Staff then clear the table and another party is seated. Rinse and repeat. <br /><br />I sometimes think it's the business model that Chinese restaurants choose to operate in that they sacrifice margins slightly in order to gain loyalty, repeat business and more covers. Does that even make sense?Thebaonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-86346047823344208952011-10-11T09:44:34.788+01:002011-10-11T09:44:34.788+01:00Oh by the way, from the perspective of the most Ja...Oh by the way, from the perspective of the most Japanese, WAGAMAMA is not a Japanese restaurant...it's more of Chinese one..I suppose.Marinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-64872557575771158162011-10-11T09:34:37.951+01:002011-10-11T09:34:37.951+01:00Speaking of Japanese food - Tobiko in covent garde...Speaking of Japanese food - Tobiko in covent garden is having it's Birthday celebration and they are doing half-price sushi all day. I can't recommend this place enough - it's takeaway only, but the quality is tip top and at half price you feel like you are taking advantage of them. <br /><br />Map here: http://g.co/maps/gq7kbFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03410641601158831943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-45239324891729567962011-10-11T08:58:54.446+01:002011-10-11T08:58:54.446+01:00Hi I'm Japanese and lived in London for a coup...Hi I'm Japanese and lived in London for a couple of years and now in Hong Kong...<br />Very interesting debate..and sorry I don't have time to read all your comments throughly.<br />In my opinion, the ingredients from Japan are one of the reasons. They are pricey with the import cost.<br />Second, manpower cost; I have never worked for a Japanese restaurant in London but, I suppose, the Japanese restaurants pay more for their employees than for those working for Chinese restaurants...Many of students from Japan work for a Japanese restaurant in London and they would not work for meager wages which is, I guess, some of Chinese people would accept (sorry if I'm biased.).<br />Lastly, I don't want to sound stuck-up but Japanese food generally have an expensive image (as French food does, I assume.) so people normally would accept the relatively high price to pay... <br /><br />These are all I can think of, and I agree there are less pricy ones in London (and nice). I remember some ramen shops in soho and one in Camden town being value-for-money.<br />And I would be very happy if you enjoy Japanese foods more and more!<br />Have a good day!Marinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-78891516606867857342011-10-11T08:19:30.980+01:002011-10-11T08:19:30.980+01:00GChick - I take your point on expensive ingredient...GChick - I take your point on expensive ingredients but Chinese stuff like abalone, shark's fin, sea cucumber et al isn't exactly cheap. The thing is it's across all price points where Japanese food is just that bit pricier. <br /><br />Mzungu - absolutely. How and when Japanese food came to London is pivotal to its pricing point. BTW - not that I set any store by Michelin but there are currently four Chinese restaurants in London with a star (Hakkasan, Hakkasan Mayfair, Kai and Yauatcha). <br /><br />Kay - I think a home-cooked Japanese meal, whilst not expensive, will cost more than a comparable Chinese one. Why? IMHO setting up a 'Japanese' store cupboard would cost more than a 'Chinese' one e.g. Japanese soy is pricier than its Chinese equivalent!<br /><br />And I have no doubt that there are Japanese bargains to be found across London but more often than not Chinese will be cheaper.Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-37526628341685941552011-10-11T00:55:30.763+01:002011-10-11T00:55:30.763+01:00Most people seem to associate Japanese food with s...Most people seem to associate Japanese food with seafood and sushi. While I do agree to some extent that the cost of ingredients could be more, but if you look at home cooked japanese meals, the cost will equate to a chinese meal. Order your steamed fish, add some meat dishes and vegetables + soup in a chinese dinner at a restaurant and how much will that come up to?<br /><br />Go to a Jap restaurant and order the same and there are many around that offers the same value although a lot less available all around London. <br /><br />I think it is also the perception associated with the two cuisines. I always had a thorn with chinese food being perceived as cheap and greasy. Think people should go and try Kai at Mayfair. I'll probably try to head to Beijing to find imperial cuisine.Kay @ Chopstix2Steakniveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07356201055464846743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-30397462083367671672011-10-10T23:29:59.918+01:002011-10-10T23:29:59.918+01:00Some really good points here, and got to agree wit...Some really good points here, and got to agree with most of them. <br />Chinese food unfortunately has had some really naff press over the years, due to as a lot of people having mentioned the cheap and mostly nasty takeaways that are situated on to many estates. <br />But slowly people are realising that there is more to Chinese food than the bad version we have had to endure over the years.<br />I'm not sure 10 years ago that many people would think that an Indian restaurant would receive a Michelin star. But it has happened and it can happen with Chinese food as well. People just have to be educated.<br /><br />Japanese food came popular during the 80's when Japan's economy was soaring, and all those city types lunching on expenses. But this was also the time of nouvelle cuisine and its smaller than small portions, so Japanese food kind of fitted into that mould. Thankfully only one of these survived. <br /><br />It may not answer as to why, but it's my point of view anyhows. To be honest I'm glad Chinese food is cheaper, as it means I can eat it more often . Makes me happy.Mzunguhttp://www.ilivetoeatandeattolive.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-70675928766676710552011-10-10T23:11:27.642+01:002011-10-10T23:11:27.642+01:00Adding my two pence worth here - I think it is the...Adding my two pence worth here - I think it is the ingredients - even without high grade sashimi there is a LOT of seafood in Japanese food and other expensive and not commonly available food. Let's face it Japanese food as a rule is not just more expensive than Chinese food it is more expensive than almost any other cuisine I can think of.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15550630880349913974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8659859995099007525.post-57943001938646030332011-10-10T16:38:44.225+01:002011-10-10T16:38:44.225+01:00Thebao - let's not drift away from the point t...Thebao - let's not drift away from the point that on a like-for-like basis - be it spending the same amount of money or ordering a similarly proportioned meal, Chinese food tends to be better value than Japanese.<br /> <br />That said, I agree that you can get a cheap(ish) Japanese meal. However, say for example, you ordered a bowl of noodles plus a side of gyoza in a Japanese caff and compared that to essentially the same order of a bowl of noodles plus some guotie/wor tip dumplings in a Chinese place, the Japanese meal will, more often than not, be more expensive.Mr Noodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327242172810414292noreply@blogger.com